©2007 Nephyr Jacobsen and Wit Sukhsamran

In the past year I have had the enormous blessing of striking up a friendship Wit Sukhsamran. In addition to enriching my life with his friendship, my life as a Thai massage practitioner and teacher has been greatly affected by this relationship. Khun Wit, who lives in Bangkok, is without a doubt the most knowledgeable English speaking person I have ever encountered when it comes to the study and practice of Thai medicine. He is also a little shy, wishing as much as possible to stay out of the Western public eye. For these reasons, to name only a few, I am grateful to him for agreeing to this interview, and this chance to share some of his thoughts with you, my community of students, practitioners and teachers.

N: Wit, I’d like to start by asking you what led you to study Thai medicine.

W: At a young age I became a novice in a Buddhist temple. The monk who became my teacher had training in Traditional Thai Medicine and being his disciple, I learned that wisdom along with my other studies in Buddhism and so forth.

N: Western scholars of Thai Medicine often note a difference between a “royal” elite system of medicine and a folk, or “rural” system. Can you comment on this?

W: Well, these divisions of medicine in Thailand are created by scholars, as you mentioned, and for the most part, these scholars are not actually practicing the medicine. When it comes down to it, there is no clear distinction between the two divisions. The interaction between the two divisions has been a dynamic one. There are definitely influences of “folk” medicine on the “royal” tradition and vice versa. In Thailand the divisions are labeled as “Traditional Thai Medicine” and “Indigenous Thai Medicine”. So while it is recognized as two separate systems, the divide is not as distinct as Western scholars would have us believe. What is considered to be Traditional Thai Medicine is influenced by Indian Medicine and Chinese Medicine, but has its roots in Indigenous Medicine. As with many things in Thailand, it’s not black and white. It’s usually a case by case basis and each case has a varying degree of influence.

N: Would I be correct in understanding that when you speak of “Indigenous Medicine” you are speaking of medicine that is native to the geography of Thailand, and may even pre-date the arrival of the T’ai people?

W: Yes. That is correct. While the T’ai people arrived in the area now known as Thailand around 800 C.E. (A.D.), there were other inhabitants who had been living here for many centuries. Both the Mon and the Khmer empires ruled various parts of what is now known as Thailand. The Khmers even had hospitals in many parts of N.E. and Central Thailand, so we know there was medicine being practiced here long ago. The important thing to remember is that the medicine comes from the land. It is a result of the environment around the people. The medicine we use is indigenous to the area. The theory is based on the experiences we encounter on a daily basis. So as long as there were people, with organized civilizations inhabiting this land, there was Indigenous Medicine.

N: Most of the readers of this interview will be people who relate to Thai medicine through their experiences with Thai massage. Can you speak a bit about the role of Thai massage in Thai Medicine?

W: Thai Medicine, as taught in the regulated programs in Thailand, is composed of four separate but inter-related branches. These are; Massage, Medical Theory, Pharmacy, and Midwifery. So to answer your question, Massage is a huge part of Thai Medicine.

N: How would you say Thai Massage, as practiced traditionally in Thailand as medicine, differs from what westerners are being taught, and what we encounter when we go to get a Thai massage on the streets of Thailand?

W: Well, there are different levels of knowledge and practice. There are some people who practice Thai massage for the purpose of relaxation. There are some that practice for general health. And there are others that practice for the treatment of various conditions. In general, what most Westerners encounter in schools and in most massage shops is the first or second, or perhaps somewhere in the middle.

N: Most Western teachers of Thai massage, and Westerners writing about it, tend to teach the theory portion with a strong Ayurvedic slant. Would you say that this is an appropriate way of understanding Thai medicine in general and Thai massage in particular?

W: Absolutely not. Unfortunately, this seems to be the norm. For a while it was Traditional Chinese theory that was being used to substitute for the traditional Thai theory. I guess people found that Ayurveda was a better fit. However, it’s still not completely correct. The theory of Thai Massage, as many people know, is unique to itself, and is not merely a ‘branch’ of Ayurveda. Thai medicine has been influenced by its neighbors, namely India and China. However, because of the specifics of the region and the differences in the culture, the medicine that came to be is very different from that of India and China. Especially in comparison to what has been brought to the West. I can’t express it in any other way but to say that Thai medicine is its own method and has its own theory.

N: Should Thai Massage be considered energy work?

W: To consider Thai Massage to be exclusively “energetic” work is ridiculous. Some of the techniques utilized are comparable to those used by physical therapists and chiropractors. By this I mean, if done incorrectly it could be dangerous and lead to injury. So no, it does should not be classified as ‘energy’ work in the Western sense of the word. In fact, it is one of the most physical forms of massage that I know of. However, despite this, there is of course an ‘energetic’ component. The difference is that the concept of energy in the Thai medical theory is different from the idea of energy commonly held in the West. In Thai Massage theory we do not separate the energetic body from the physical body. As we see it, one cannot really exist without the other. Utilizing the techniques available to us in Thai Massage we are working on both levels and not one or the other.

N: What do you have to say about Thai Massage “routines” as they are taught to and by Westerners?

W: The routines are used primarily by those practicing relaxation massage and massage for general health. There are various routines which are taught by different schools. Some schools teach routines for specific ailments. The routine is a good way to work with the entire body and to treat, or at least “touch,” all of the sen lines. However, it is really more of a collection of techniques, a medley. For those practicing therapeutic techniques they will often break from the routine and use only those techniques which are needed for the treatment of that particular patient.

N: You’re speaking of the different component parts of a Thai Massage routine, each being able to be seen as a form of therapy unto themselves – without the whole of the combination. Is that correct?

W: That is correct. A skilled therapist can use and apply the various techniques to form his/her own specific treatment protocol for a given patient.

N: Some teachers focus on knowing and understanding the sen lines, while others seem to disregard them (I’m talking about teachers in Thailand). Can you speak to this?

W: It really depends on the level of the practitioner. I feel that in the beginning it’s good to learn them (Sen) and all the foundational training. One should understand which Sen is being worked on and how it relates to the treatment. However, in the end, like with any art or skill, it has to become a part of you. It’s not enough to simply follow what your teachers have taught you or what the texts say. When it comes down to it, we are treating people and no two people are the same. It’s necessary to listen, to work intelligently and intuitively. Some teachers are teaching their students how to do this. Others are teaching the foundation. Neither is the best way or the right way. They are just different steps.

N: It seems like learning to read. At first you have to look at each letter and really think about what it means. Then later you just absorb the words, and don’t think about the letters anymore. Like with Thai massage, at first you think “I’m working on outside leg line 3, which is sen Kalatharee, which means….” then later, you just don’t think about it.

W: Correct. It’s no different. People often get too caught up in it all because it’s so different from what they are used to doing or because it is exotic and mysterious. In fact, learning Thai massage is the same as learning to ride a bike or learning anything to do anything that requires us to be able to work from a point of true understanding and intuition.

N: Can you talk about how Thai Massage differs from other Asian forms of bodywork?

W: Well, the major difference is in the theory. The techniques don’t differ much from other methods because we have to remember that we are working with the same body. There are only so many ways in which a stretch, point press, etc., can be done. I’d say the major difference is the sen theory. The sen theory is what makes Thai Massage unique. Chinese meridians relate to elements and organs. They have specific pathways that they follow in accordance with their theory. The Indian nadis, I can’t comment on as I have no knowledge of their system, but I know that the nadis are based on a chakra system and this system of chakras is not a part of Thai medical theory.

N: Before we part, do you have any advice for Westerners studying, practicing and teaching Thai massage?

W: My advice would be to learn from more than one teacher. Try to get various interpretations of the method. There isn’t one person who knows it all. Also, take time to actually practice the work before moving on to the next teacher or teaching yourself for that matter. In Thailand we usually say that we start beginning to understand massage after at least five years of practice. Question and investigate, but do so from a practical understanding, not just a theoretical one.